The guy is saying Godot is comparable to a game engine with hundreds of millions of dollars of product development. I wouldn’t be worrying about what other people might say.
- 6SixTy 15 hours ago
Considering that Source is ancient and likely hasn't gotten an update from at least 2013 for TF2, the bar is low for how complete an engine needs to be for level comparisons.
- enragedcacti 15 hours ago
I'm not really disagreeing with your point but I think in general Valve has kept their games that share an engine on the same trunk, so TF2 should be on a pretty recent version of source. The update accompanying this release includes the bicubic lightmap and radial fog implementations from the HL2: 20th Anniversary update.
For Source 2 it ends up being a constant source of leaks where strings for engine features of in-development games get shipped out in Dota 2 and CS2 updates. We learned tons of stuff about Deadlock that way.
- jamesfinlayson 10 hours ago
Yeah last year Team Fortress 2 got the 64-bit update and replaced some commercial libraries. The branch of Source that it's on seems to get periodic security updates too.
- jamesfinlayson 10 hours ago
- kllrnohj 8 hours ago
Source got some significant updates such as HRTF audio in 2016 and Panorama UI in 2018. I don't know if TF2 specifically ever got those changes, though, but Source engine itself did as used by CSGO.
- ZeWaka 15 hours ago
Are you considering Source 2 in this assertion? That piece of software has received quite significant development effort.
- 6SixTy 14 hours ago
I'm not. Source 2 is very modern even by caveman gamer standards.
- 6SixTy 14 hours ago
- enragedcacti 15 hours ago
- SXX 15 hours ago
For anyone not looking for super realistic 3D and primary targeting PC audience Godot is enough to make good game. Majority of game devs do not build AAA titles with $10,000,000+ budget. A lot of players play mostly indie games.
FFS some of the best indie games out there made was made on RPG Maker and let's say it's far less advance than Godot. After all games are all about enjoyable core loop and player expirience. And no game engine magically give you any of it.
Company I co-founded released 2 games on PC and about to release 3rd one on PC and all the consoles. One of them was made with Godot, two with Unity. The only reason we had to switch to Unity are consoles. And the reason why Godot cant efficiently complete on consoles is the fact that platforms are backward and proprietary.
- doctorpangloss 10 hours ago
Yeah. Listen, first person shooters are an enjoyable core loop and player experience. Unreal and Source definitely magically gives you like 80%, and maybe all the hard parts, of making that game.
And of course I appreciate what you do. Thing is if you shoved it into a first person shooter, would it be even more successful? The answer to that question is often yes. Same as Roblox being basically Tavern Brawl but for third person platformers. Coming from a POV of game design for phones, Roblox games suck, but look: they are extremely popular and the clunky format of that engine makes them work. My point is that it’s impossible to generalize, but basically there is nothing you could make better with Godot today than with Unity or Unreal, as lamentable as that is, and even the things they make you want to make, it’s better to make those things instead.
- SXX 4 hours ago
You think that any game will be more popular just because majority of TOP100 titles are 3D FPS-like titles. Problem is that building such a game with modern graphics costs tens of millions of dollars. There are very few companies in the world with budgets big enough to even afford attempt on it and majority of such projects also flop.
If you look past TOP100 most popular games by player count you will find there are hundreds of less popular niche titles and wast majority of them likely not even 3D at all and there is reason for this.
Anyone who tried to start game development company and get their project funded knows that majority of publishers in the world operate well under $500,000 per project. This could sound unreal for US-based person who knows of FAANG salaries, but this is how game development industry is: lots of enthusiast trying to make some games working for penies.
So nope, wast majority of game developers dont need Unreal or even Unity feature set simply because they dont have budget for building modern 3D game.
- SXX 4 hours ago
- doctorpangloss 10 hours ago
- Me000 15 hours ago
It almost worked on me.
- doctorpangloss 15 hours ago
Indeed it’s possible for Godot and Source to be good game engines and also not at all substitutes for each other.
The kind of discourse that litigates why that fact is true doesn’t serve curiosity or add knowledge.
- doctorpangloss 15 hours ago
- KennyBlanken 14 hours ago
And you're equating money spent on development with quality, performance, features, and compatibility. Please do tell me about how Source even remotely compares to Unity or Unreal?
Do you see Source being used in virtual soundstages? No.Does Source support Metal or Vulkan? No.
Does it have anything approaching the 3D or 2D or rendering style capabilities of any modern engine? No.
Is Source going to be remotely relevant for metaverse stuff? No.
All the money in the world won't change the fact that Source is an outdated pile of garbage.
Respawn uses it to this day for Apex, and it's horrific. Its graphics quality is atrocious especially for the demands it places on hardware. It has the worst latency of any similar multiplayer game (some events can take half a second to make it from a player's action to another player's system!) It lacks modern features that have been in other games for many years, like variable event rates (some games, for example, will use much higher event update rates for stuff happening within the player's field of view.)
Its game engine has so many bugs around inputs, movement, and collisions that high level play revolves around abusing all of them for competitive advantage in what is lauded as "movement", and because Respawn never treated these issues as exploits, they got painted into a corner where they can't ever switch to a modern game engine because trying to get the quirks of movement behavior would be impossible.
The game's input processing is done in relation to framerate, for fucks sakes....so input processing behavior changes depending on framerate.
The security and anti-cheat in the game is so hamstrung by Source that multiple world tournaments have been hacked live and ultimately had to be done in secret, later broadcast - because Respawn was so powerless to stop the hacker(s).
With more Unity shifting to a royalty model you're going to see a lot more interest in open source game engines like Godot; Godot is, for example, working on being usable for massive multiplayer and open-world games.
- t0b1 8 hours ago
> All the money in the world won't change the fact that Source is an outdated pile of garbage.
Given that the engine has been in, essentially, maintenance mode for almost a decade now, that is not really surprising. A more apt comparison would be Source 2 I assume.
> some events can take half a second to make it from a player's action to another player's system
What are events here? At least in normal source this should be impossible for anything movement/input related as the server processes the input each tick and then distributes that to each client (the Apex implementation should still do this). If it takes half a second to forward such an action, the whole server should hang for this time in the eyes of each client.
> The game's input processing is done in relation to framerate
This is a behavior added by Respawn, not something normal Source does.
> The security and anti-cheat in the game is so hamstrung by Source
That is a really broad claim imo. AFAIK CSGO only had this issue once in its lifetime and that was caused not by an issue in the engine but in the matchmaking service. So isn’t it more likely that Respawn just screwed something up?
- jamesfinlayson 10 hours ago
> Does Source support Metal or Vulkan?
Vulkan support is now there (it was added in the last couple of years). Might not be for all engine branches though.
- t0b1 8 hours ago
